Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defence zone . . . Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.
For those unfamiliar with the Air Defense Identification Zone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone_(Taiwan)
Not only does it include a lot of water that isn’t part of the Strait, right off of China’s coast, it also includes a portion of Mainland China a few times larger than Taiwan itself.
People like to talk like China is flying jets over Taipei City, but you can fly a plane from one city in Mainland China to another, only passing over land, and be in this zone. Mind you, I don’t think Taiwan having this zone is bad – countries generally should be aware of air traffic nearby – but this is part of a long history of alarmist headlines by western media regarding what is often very uninteresting air traffic in the PRC.
Lmao Taiwan existing is bad
Yeah, obviously it’s a glorified puppet state but there’s no point in arguing from that standpoint here. If a country is to exist, it should know about local air traffic, that’s all I’m saying.
It is not to exist. I don’t care about their air borders and I hope China flies wherever they please within Chinese territory like Chinese Taipei
The PRC wants a peaceful reunification, which would not be aided by them continuously flying military jets over the island. I, too, would prefer peaceful reunification, which means some level of cooperation and tolerance is necessary.
It’s going to require might and pressure and gunboat diplomacy, it’s denial and liberalism to pretend colonialists just give up their holdings
The RoC won’t give up their holdings in the interest of human benefit, but liberalism shows us that there are countless ways to skin a cat. The RoC is not autarkic and is very dependent on its NATO friends and its trading partners. As the US wanes and third world nations stand up, the support for Taiwanese nationalism will surely dwindle, and RoC leadership may be put in a position where their best offer is clearly to reunify.
A glorified puppet state? What do you mean?
I started writing out a timeline but I don’t know what position you’re asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China so that the US could us the island as a threat against China – as it also attempted to do in Korea when it had more-or-less complete control of the southern half. Taiwan spent about 40 years as a military dictatorship killing tens of thousands of dissidents, native Formosans, and others (this was called the “White Terror”), while their patron the US looked the other way while it pumped resources into the country (for the ruling class, mind you) to use the island as a sweatshop site in the interim. This legacy and its connections to fellow US puppet South Korea and US ally Japan go a long way to explaining its current capacity in manufacturing, which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.
Both Taiwan and SK have made various attempts to assert themselves (with some success in both cases), but with the pathetic diplomatic position of the former and the continued military occupation of the latter by the US, I think “puppet state” is a fair title for them, perhaps as much as Israel, but that’s its own can of worms.
I didn’t really intend on getting into litigating this topic, but I’m happy to discuss it as best I can.
Not only did the US turn a blind eye to the White Terror, but they were positively gleeful about it, as a key target of it was of course not only indigeneous-politics based, but fundamentally anti-communist.
Indeed a basic presupposition of the US providing you such extensive economic support, as a forward base in Asia against communism, is that you crush any opposition to its ‘proper’ functioning as such an economic and military asset. That supposes that you will crush any radical, labor, trade-union, let alone explicitly socialist or communist activity which appears to challenge the state.
I started writing out a timeline but I don’t know what position you’re asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China […] which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.
Yes, I know about its not-so-glorious past and the White Terror. Thousands of innocent civilians were killed. It was terrible. However, I must respectfully disagree with you on the “puppet state” part. I don’t think that Taiwan is a puppet state. The US sponsoring Taiwan is a thing of the past. Neither is a pathetic diplomatic position a good reason for being a puppet state.
if US support dropped overnight, reunification with the mainland would become inevitable. it’s a puppet state in the sense that it’s propped up by the might of the US/NATO military.
ehh yeah I guess so
I didn’t see this reply before. The other commenter has it right that the relevance of its pathetic diplomatic position is that it is being propped up by the US/NATO and ultimately depends on them to exist apart from the PRC, which makes it very difficult to oppose them. Incidentally, does the US not sponsor Taiwan? Even just recently there was this, which sure seems like sponsorship to me.
Apparently being sponsored by a foreign state is now counted as being a puppet state?
Taiwan is a rump state of the despotism that existed before the Maoist revolution. When the government fled to the island, the US backed them up and prevented the revolution from purging them from power and uniting the whole country under one flag. They exist today as they are because of western intervention, and is therefore a puppet state. I disagree with ‘glorified’ considering it’s taboo internationally to even call them a state.
Taiwhat? I Thought it was called the Republic of China, and everyone’s been telling me China bad!
Cool, so lets ask the people living there (not those in power) what they want with their country.
They’re more like pro japan party to me.
Do you even know why the pro-independence party (DPP) lost so badly in the local election for mayors? Because the people were disappointed in what DPP had done with the economy, not because they didn’t agree with the foreign policies DPP was pushing! (Please note that I’m not saying most people agree.) In local elections, people are going to choose whoever they believe would be the best for the city/county, not the one whose views on China they agree with.
Additionally, if you look at the latest opinion poll for the presidental election next year, you’d be surprised to find out that the candidate from the pro-independence party is leading.
Source: am Taiwanese
ps. you made a typo in your comment. it was the 2022 local election, not 2020.
Because the people were disappointed in what DPP had done with the economy
inciting conflict with your biggest trading partner does tend to have negative effects on the economy
Well yeah I guess, but really it’s more about the policies they had been pushing domesticlly
i am sure the success or failure of those domestic policies were not in the least contingent on international political conditions. the economic policies of an island that imports 97% of its energy with a food self sufficiency rate of around 30% and exports accounting for 70% of gdp can in no way be considered to be overexposed or at risk to trade fluctuations and even if that were the case, i am sure that foreign policy would not play an outsize role in determining the magnitude or periodicity of said trade fluctuations.
foreign policy is an area famously known for not having economic impacts
Because a poll asking a direct question is a hell of a lot more accurate in gauging how the population feels about the issue.
Political parties can lose elections for their stances/actions outside their main one – which seems to have been the case per the actual person from Taiwan that responded to your comment. It doesn’t matter what a party is called or what their main goals are if they’re bad at their job.
If and when the people of Taiwan decide they want reunification, it will happen. Thankfully Beijing isn’t going to be allowed to force the issue.
You want polls, how about this poll conducted by a Taiwanese university where the majority of Taiwanese want neither reunification nor independence, but the status quo? The majority of Taiwanese people wanting the status quo lines up with how the pro-independence party ate shit while the pro-status quo party made huge gains. The DPP got BTFO so hard the current DPP president Tsai Ing-wen had to resign as party head.
The majority of Taiwanese people has always wanted to remain status quo, as indicated by the two triangle data lines in the plot. Since declaring independence is basically asking China to attack and that peaceful reunification is not desirable (for >90% of the population) either, the majority are of course pro-status quo. It does not line up with how DPP ate shit last year.
peaceful reunification is not desirable (for >90% of the population)
Again, this was “forced” reunification in that poll, i.e. military takeover. Of course people oppose that. I think at least the plurality opinion is against peaceful reunification under the PRC too, but it’s not by as high a margin.
Thank you for mentioning me. Makes me feel like not all people on this thread is pro-China. :D
Like asking yankoids what they want to do with “their land”, the question is pointless and only serves to legitimize a faulty preposition.
The ROC also still claims to be the legitimate government of all of China (plus Mongolia and a sizable chunk of Russia) so its not like they’re just sitting there minding their own business either.
The ROC also claims the South China Sea as its own and has build naval bases in there. Even the DPP doesn’t want to give up those naval bases. So, it’s the Republic of Taiwan to stick it to the Mainland commies, but “akctually, we’re the Republic of China, and the South China Sea is part of Chinese naval waters, so we get to build as many naval bases as we want” to Vietnam and Indonesia.
It’s schrodinger’s China. Simultaneously an independent smol bean democracy and the only legitimate inheritor of a 4000 year old empire.
Plus 11 dash line
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OK, but these articles arent alerting on that type of traffic, only when military aircraft are flying near Thailand, so whats the significance of the ADIZ extending into China in this context?
That’s exactly what type of traffic these articles are alerting. Which is why there’s no need to even pay attention to it.
Also Thailand has had Chinese military visit it’s country as well as trained with Chinese soldiers. If you know so little, why comment?
The quoted text in your reply says that the jets crossed a half way point over the sea. They were not over mainland China.
This feels like having a conversation with bing’s chat bot.
Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defence zone . . . Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.
This is what the original post quoted. Flying over international air space is NOT news worthy. Unless China does it, suddenly it’s news. And yes, in case you don’t understand, the median line IS international air space. In fact, that’s USA’s whole point of freedom of navigation is that anyone can fly or sail over that median line.
So if your argument that countries shouldn’t freely fly or sail over the Taiwan Strait, you agree with China, NOT Taiwan.
My argument is that you shouldn’t fly military aircraft so close to a country in their ADIZ after stating you don’t believe they’re a country and that you will take them over with violent means if necessary.
Ah classic, your all for rule of law until there’s an actor you don’t like following rule of law. Suddenly the law should change just for them. Hypocrite.
So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now. You obviously didn’t read the article - “Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.”
In international relations, militaries have defined and at times unspoken rules of engagement. This was NOT routine flight over mainland China that you are making out to be, but was a clear breach of said protocols. Thus Taiwan sent its fighter jets to observe the Chinese military aircraft.
I literally quoted the part that you just also quoted, which specifies that some of the craft were merely in the ADIZ, the one thing I was talking about in my comment
I’m so tired of the notion that anyone not being in line with certain narratives is automatically considered a drone.
Like 6ish years ago we all, liberals and leftists together, were creeped out by the right’s sudden proliferation of “NPC” memes, correctly pointing out how dehumanizing it is and conjecturing darkly about what exactly this kind of rhetoric was priming these people for. Now, the overton window’s so fucked that the we’ve normalized deploying the exact same invective against anyone who speaks up on behalf of humanity and against a US-dominated world. I’ve driven past the ruins of the Japanese concentration camps out in the miserable desert, and to know that so many people around me who act self-righteous but stand for nothing would rebuild those camps at the snap of a finger, or the running of an op-ed, or a scary news story…well, these people may haughtily object to being called blue MAGA, but that sure doesn’t stop them from doing absolutely fucking everything they can to earn the label.
Waving the Japanese internment camps in our faces isn’t some sort of gotcha. We acknowledge their existence and try to do better.
Meanwhile your type denies that Uyghur camps exist, or claim that they’re some sort of benign summer camp
You both quoted the same exact piece of text. You said they didn’t read the article but you didn’t even bother to read their comment?
You are calling a human being a bot, literally dehumanizing them, because they don’t have the same hatred of China as you. You should really check yourself. You are full of hatred and ideological poison. It is clear from your comment that you have limited literacy skills and understanding, you should check out some other perspectives and try to broaden your horizons. Here is one. This is also another incredible resource with a lot of essays and information with a different perspective
Oh another no post history user! welcome to fediverse!
the user you just replied to made their account a year ago and has an extensive post history
And yet that dude is the one calling people bots
No no never engage their statement on it’s alleged merits. Kick them in the [redacted] and then ask them why they can’t walk while laughing. It is the weirding way.
We should give @[email protected] benefit of the doubt. Sometimes when people view other’s profile from another instance, the post history shows up empty.
benefit of the doubt.
Yeah I think that is what’s happening. I’ve tried to explain it to them in a reply
…are you aware you can’t see people’s post histories if you click their username on lemmy.ca and you have to visit their home instance?
What would that have to do with anything? You should log off and touch grass, bigot.
So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now.
Amazing how comfortable you are being racist on a public forum.
Anyway, people should look at this map and take note of how far Taiwan’s ADIZ extends into Fujian province of mainland China and the open ocean (which is the southwest corner the PRC’s airplanes were supposedly encroaching on). These articles are obviously published to make China seem more aggressive than it really is. Meanwhile the US, with the most powerful navy in the world, parades its warships through the Taiwan strait, which for some reason is not seen as a threat or provocation. Also Taiwan claims the mainland as its own territory. Oh, poor little Taiwan. Lol, get off it.
Yes, the ADIZ includes part of China, but this article is mainly about jets crossing the median line of Taiwan Strait. Also I don’t think Taiwan gets mad over any jets intruding the “overclaimed” part of the ADIZ.
but this article is mainly about jets crossing the median line of Taiwan Strait
It says the jets did that OR were in the southwest zone. It is intentionally vague alarmism.
How is calling out a Chinese bot or Russian bot racist? You are obviously pro-China and you didn’t read the article. That makes you a Chinese bot.
“How am I being racist? I’m just assuming anyone who disagrees with me must be a certain ethnicity and/or bot.”
This really isn’t too complicated. Stop using Chinese as a pejorative and “bot” as a thought terminating cliche. It prevents any meaningful discussion, and yes, it’s also very racist.
Hush hexbear
Damn I wish my instance wasn’t federated with them.
The term isn’t being used as a pejorative. The term is being used as an adjective to a pro-chinese social media commentator. Mister Doi Doi with NO history in lemmy.
you’re suffering from some serious
brain poisoningThe term isn’t being used as a pejorative. The term is being used as an adjective to a pro-chinese social media commentator. Mister Doi Doi with NO history in lemmy.
Got’em. You should post hoghog out or
Mister Doi Doi with NO history in lemmy.
Their account is two years old and has two years of history. Idk if that doesn’t show up for you or something, but it is indeed there.
Chinese refers to the people who live there or who’s families emigrated from there, not randos online who don’t support the rabid NATO line. your racism is showing.
You are obviously pro-China (…). That makes you a Chinese bot.
At long last, we’ve reached the molten core of psychotic liberal solipsism
Dudes making us wheel of time fans look fucking terrible smh
Anti Chinese government, pro Chinese people. Just don’t mention how many Chinese people actually support their government
You are obviously pro-West so you are a Western bot.
I am anti-Winnie the pooh led mainland expansionist imperial China.
“Yeah, I am comparing the leader of China to a yellow bear, but it is totally not racist guys. I really care about the chinese people”
Didn’t take long for that one to come out, accused of being racist and immediately compares the leader of China to a yellow cartoon bear lmao. Incredible
What’s wrong with Winnie the Pooh anyways? Who doesn’t want to live the rest of their life eating honey and being a loving, caring member of their community?
I’m so flattered your first comment or post EVER in 3 years is to me. bye!
Is this supposed to be another example of you not being racist? Comparing the president of china to a yellow cartoon character?
Oh Winnie the Pooh is a common affectionate nickname for Xi on the internet. Do you not know that comrade?
ATTENTION
Your account has been flagged for bot-like activity. Please review the Posting Policy Bulletin, and post hog to verify your account.
This is amazing o7
A racist bot at that…
If you want to not show yourself as a bot, you should at least be creative in your racism.
Was West Germany expansionist?
You’re expecting this person to know any of this history of China before 2000
You are obviously pro-China . . . That makes you a Chinese bot.
you, oh enlightened
one, could you perhaps explain to us what the word ‘bot’ means?Sir or Ma’am, I am a US citizen of Chinese descent and I assure you that you are being a cracker, and you can stop any time.
My bias is towards peace and against interfering in other countries’ internal affairs. Taiwan is part of China, this was settled in 1972. It’s only in recent years that the US has taken a hostile stance against the PRC since its peaceful economic rise has started to threaten US hegemony. This is not my fight, it’s not your fight, it is the fight of the US ruling class—its political establishment and its financial oligarchs. China and the US should be allies, and we should be putting our combined labor into decarbonization, healing the ecosphere, reparations for the global south, and preparing communities for the effects of climate change.
Also, my family immigrated from Hong Kong before it was released from British rule, so ~by your logic~ I should be against China, which I’m not, because I’m capable of critical thinking.
Oh, and one more thing:
You sound completely deranged.
Need a Sopranos comm.
“You sound demented!”
That’s precisely the sort of argument one would expect from a NAFO bot. Hope you earned enough FICO credit points to buy food tonight.
Bro the amerikkkan navy sails it’s boats there. Silence, drone.
Uhhh, that’s obviously different, America is a
whitewestern country and so it owns the world
Everyone who disagrees with me must be a bot.
I bet your response will contain one of more of the following: Winnie the Pooh, social credit, comrade, Uyghurs. Yet you call others bots, lmao.
Evergreen Goosplan meme.
Looks like you were correct on all of those predictions
Uyghurs are experiencing a genocide in China and you think it’s spamming to bring it up?
I can’t believe people are still trying to peddle this conspiracy theory in year 2023.
Bruh lmao
So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now
Beep boop I have been programmed to make really fucking cool historical dramas beep boop (This is my stereotype about China idk what else happens there I just really like Three Kingdoms adaptations did y’all see 2008’s Red Cliff it was dope af! John Woo directing!)
MUST MAKE DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF TOM AND JERRY SHITPOSTSMUST POST MEMES OF AN AD FOR MIXUE ICE CITYMUST UPLOAD 12 GB FOLDER OF BIAOQING IMAGES
of fucking course lol, ugh
Least Sinophobic Canadian
back to reddit with you
lemmy.ml stands for mega-lib smdh
RandAlThor, more like AynRandAlThor
Lenin’s only mistake was giving Ayn Rand an education
“or”
not “and”, “or”.
The southwestern quadrant of Taiwan’s ADIZ overlaps with China’s ADIZ. If anything, Taiwan is overclaiming their ADIZ.
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First day? Lemmygrad brigades every worldnews thread about China or Russia.
crying about brigades like some loser Redditor
Learn how federation works. Or better yet, go back to reddit.
When I am exposed to multiple people who disagree with me, that’s brigading
You seem upset
😠
Seems reasonable
U mad?
Do you have anything to contribute or are you just trolling?
Did you ever check out that thread on lemmygrad I made for you? You never said anything but you might have just forgotten.
ATTENTION
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Um, they did contribute? Didn’t you see the
You seem upset
okay guys , so since this hole federation stuff your Pro Imperial Wrong Takes comes my way , it must be corrected …
this is Taiwans Air Identification Zone
it is a Bullshit leftover that spans so vast over china that it simply can not be not violated ,…
theirby producing the most wonderfull “Permanent - Saturaton - Propaganda” of China Bad Bakround noise for the Imperial core audience in their Echo Chambers .PS: this is where real Journalist go in the west , when they start beeing critical of non approved subjects.
“Good thing propaganda only ever happens to other people”
I suspect the US has begun moving pawns in anticipation of withdrawing support for Taiwan in the still-distant future.
There are many geopolitical steps that would need to occur first, most likely over the span of many years. But I think the US sees a different future now than it did 20 years ago, and I think they recognize that one day they will not be willing to pay the price that China will be ready to extract over Taiwan.
The initial stage should look like overt fear-mongering, counterintuitively. Money and therefore emotions need to be mobilized in the US to put things into place so that the severance can go smoothly. An aggressive stance is presented as a masquerade of what is going on behind-the-scenes. But what is really happening is that Taiwan is being made redundant.
What is Taiwan’s most strategic asset for its allies? Semiconductors. What has the US been pouring money into subsidizing this year? Semiconductors. I think TSMC is more likely to become irrelevant than bombed.
Of course all it takes is one senior leader who drank too much of the koolade for theatre to become war.
withdrawing support for Taiwan in the still-distant future.
They’re going to tip the Republic of China in to the ocean as soon as they’ve stolen all of TSCM’s productive capacity. That’s all this was ever about. They’re building chip fabs in Arizona right now. As soon as the US can produce it’s own Chips the RoC is… going to go right back to tense but peaceful relations with the mainland like they had before DC started waving it’s grand imperial [redacted] around.
Could be. I was under the impression DC was involved from the very start (didn’t the US airlift the KMT into Taiwan?), but crazier things have happened.
Yeah, you can say in a meaningful sense that the US co-founded Taiwan. I personally think that part of the reason the US wants to recreate Taiwan’s manufacturing capacity is that it makes Taiwan much more expendable, meaning it can be used for military provocations and even war (as some US generals are openly calling for or predicting) without risking the loss of an irreplaceable economic asset to the US.
That could be, too. If that’s the case and Taiwan is wise, though, I think they would probably want to negotiate a surrender well before becoming America’s cannon fodder - which would deny it as a forward base for provocations. I also think military leaders are some of America’s best actors; they bluff much better than anyone in Hollywood, at least.
“HMP Isis” is certainly… a name.
Is this that stupid shit where their air defense zone covers a huge chunk of mainland China and they freak out every time China flies Chinese planes over China?
Daily reminder that the Taiwan Province is an inalienable part of the People’s Republic of China:
And that this is recognized by the United Nations ever since 1971 after UNGAR 2758.
Source, page 546: https://legal.un.org/unjuridicalyearbook/pdfs/english/volumes/2010.pdf
Video of the votes happening: https://invidious.projectsegfau.lt/watch?v=sfOIEjuXFyU
This is an obviously misleading article title.
How can China violate its own airspace?
127 new comments (blink)
How can a country intrude into its own territory? These separatists need to be put in their places.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Taiwan, which China claims as its territory, has repeatedly complained of Chinese military activity near it over the past three years, as Beijing steps up pressure to try to force the island to accept its sovereignty.
Taiwan’s defence ministry said that starting at around 9 a.m. (0100 GMT), it detected a total of 25 Chinese aircraft engaging in operations out at sea, including J-10 and J-16 fighters, as well as H-6 bombers.
The ADIZ is a broad area Taiwan monitors and patrols to give its forces more time to respond to threats, and Chinese aircraft have not entered territorial Taiwanese air space.
China staged war games around Taiwan in April after President Tsai Ing-wen returned home from a visit to the United States where she met U.S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.
Taiwan Vice President William Lai leaves for the United States this week on his way to Paraguay on what is officially only a transit but which has angered China.
Taiwan’s democratically elected government rejects China’s sovereignty claim and says only the island’s people can decide their future.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Dumb comment. Taiwan isn’t a country and they certainly aren’t a democracy
It’s matter of time before they anect it. Hopefully sooner than later.
Lots of suspicious comments in this thread. Seems like political astro-turfing has already arrived on Lemmy
We have a lot of pro empire shills here after the reddit migration.
Learn how federation works you paranoid weirdo.
Expressing how you feel about China is fine. Calling someone else a “paranoid weirdo” is not. That’s just plain rude and disrespectful.
Edit: I feel like I should make it extra clear that I am not defending myself because several people think that I’m whining for myself. The one called a “paranoid weirdo” was not me.
Insisting that everyone who disagrees with you is a paid agent of spooky foreigners is being a paranoid weirdo. Not to mention, plain rude and disrespectful.
Bruh when did I ever say that anyone is a “paid foreigner”?
Did you even read the comment you replied to?
I did. But I just re-read that comment and apparently you were talking about the other guy who called the pro-China comments astroturfing. My bad.
Insisting that everyone who disagrees with you is a paid agent of spooky foreigners is being a paranoid weirdo.
Yes, exactly.
beeing disrespectfull to 1,3 billion people , no problem
Beeing DISRESPECTFULL TO ME ??? WHAT THE FUCK ? YOU THINK I AM ? CHINESE ?
What do you mean by “me”? I wasn’t even the one being disrespected. I was merely speaking out for someone else. BTW no one on this thread was ever disrespectful to the 1.3 billion Chinese people. They were disrespectful to their government.
me , thomas muntzer ,pastor 1489 – 1525 , you should be disrespectfull to me , i am not chinese , i am white ! dont forget your social conditioning , reddit would not approve of this behaviour…
Chinese Goverment you can Insult on Reddit , it approves of this Behaviour … whats you problem with it Tho… do you not approve of them bringing Wealth ,Progress and Development to the Chinese Nation ?
fix your grammar first
*Fix your grammar first.
FTFY.
There’s 1.3 billion people in this thread who are supporting the PRC? There aren’t even 1.3 billion people in China supporting China. How is talking about all the nonsense in this thread being disrespectful to anyone, let alone 1.3 billion people?
oh no, someone was mean to me on the internet.
😤
Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it.
Isn’t that too harsh? Not in the least.
When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense.
You are so far right that you call anything and everything to your left astroturfing. You’ve been in a bubble for so long that it’s a culture shock when you meet actual leftists.
it’s just liberalism. it permeates the very air we breath.
You mean the ones from hexbear aka lemmygrad-lite?
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where’s “more tanky hexbear”?
It’s tomorrow’s Hexbear
Well, more like the kids meal version, but yeah
Excuse you, Lemmygrad is Hexbear-lite
communists are able to see weak lies like these, shocking! WowWEEEEEEEEEEEEE
More like feral lemmygrad.
Possibly, I didn’t look where they’re all from, nor do I know what hexbear is or why it’s significant. Sounds like some kind of intra-Lemmy drama which I’m not too interested in. Just noticed a fair amount, lets say…not totally organic, seemingly agenda pushing comments.
agenda pushing is when people have an opinion that doesn’t align with my own
No it’s when there’s mysteriously dozens of comments just magically showing up that are contrary to the vastly popular opinion on only one contentious issue, that serve the best interests of an entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion through fake grassroots posting. Also that entity has a fragile ego and a long history of online manipulation…oh and also coincidentally they are all coming from the same server
entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion
why would any foreign political entity waste its valuable english proficient resources on astroturfing an online backwater filled with politically illiterate nobodies? peak liberal solipsism
It would appear that way yes…and as mentioned, they have a history of having extremely thin skin and doing exactly that. So do I expect some group to do the exact thing they have always done? Yes. Yes I do.
And by “have a history of it” you mean "I’ve been told it so many times in the western echo chambers I hang out it that I just implicitly believe it.
Mate, you’ve already had it explained to you where we’re coming from, but apparently the idea of people who genuinely disagree with you is so fucking foreign to you that your redditor brain literally cannot process it, so you continue to descend into paranoid delusion.
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they have a history of having extremely thin skin and doing exactly that.
Are you sure you’re not talking about another country?
I would like to ask you to employ some critical thinking here. Setting aside that the people responding to you have much better English than even a pretty high-level English speaker coming from Mandarin, most of these accounts have months or years of post histories spent almost entirely talking to each other on their previously un-federated instance, including in some cases very harsh arguing, as well as talking about the US on a personal level with intimate detail (and/or whatever other country they say they are from). Do you really believe the most simple answer is that this is all kabuki theater by the CPC to astroturf an obscure collection of websites by wasting a ridiculous amount of resources and the time of highly English-fluent actors? vs just “some people think differently from you”?
If you concede this point, then I would like to ask you to just consider for a moment the implications of the fact that you took the much more absurd and flimsy explanation as though it was just the common-sense explanation. What does that say about the way that you conceptualize the world and what people believe?
Again, learn what federation is, and while you’re at it, learn that racist white westerners like you are not actually “the vast popular opinion”. You’re just used to reddit, where disagreement is suppressed, so now that you’re in a space where genuine different opinion is allowed, you’re desperate into paranoia.
You’re the only one who has brought up race and are speculating what mine must be. I’m not the racist one in this conversation and I’m not the reddit-y one either. I’m not a refugee, I left that shitty site years ago bot.
bot
I ❤ dehumanizing people with different opinions
Then you should know how federation works. And yes, believing that only the opinion of white westerners counts makes you racist as hell.
Silence, drone
I am a posting robot and I am hiding in your walls
“Vastly popular opinion” = I have never left my white bourgeois gated community in the sixty-five years I have dwelt upon this earth
lol, so your issue is that people with similar opinions happen to be on the same server? truly the most obvious evidence of agenda pushing!
I love how liberals think anybody who’s outside of their echo chamber must be a paid shill. It’s absolutely inconceivable to them that there is a significant amount of people who have contrary opinions.
:sad-in-the-corner:
They don’t know that I know they are really all paid shills and bots
Vastly popular opinion held by whom?
Anyone with half a brain can see what’s going on. I’m not playing these silly obfuscation games. You’re bad at what you do.
Yes, anyone with half a brain can see that people from a leftist instance are contributing leftist opinions to a space they just federated with. What were you expecting?
Least deranged response after being confronted with the existential horror that capitalism causes within us and being asked to cast it aside, choosing instead to bathe in the waters of the imperial core like the river of Styx, forgetting anything else exists, freeing oneself of responsibility for their fellow human, untethered by compassion and hope for the future
you seem mad, what’s the issue?
Anyone with half a brain can see what’s going on.
Yes, anybody with half a brain can see that you have paranoid delusions.
if I had 1/8th a brain I could think like you
Insult that has no tether to the topic at hand, inline with your other comments that just make vague allusions that could be applied to any topic. Found the bot.
my brain is medically broken right now and even I can see that you’re a paranoid weirdo.
No it’s when there’s mysteriously dozens of comments just magically showing up that are contrary to the vastly popular opinion on only one contentious issue, that serve the best interests of an entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion
The thick palpable fucking irony…
maaaaybe we weren’t federated until this week. but nah, paid bots makes more sense.
I don’t know if the server you are talking about is hexbear, but they recently federated and are one of the oldest lemmy instances. Lemmygrad also has been existing a long time before lemmy became as popular as it is today.
Damn wish my fragile ego could manipulate you into not being such a flaming
we federated , so now the stupid Imperialsit lies show up in Hexbear , they obviously can not stay , whats you proplem with beeing Corrected ? Do you want to live in Lies Mr. Jesus ? Because you can not be Bothered to do a ideum of research before running wild with the Mob Mr. Jesus ? , you want to forbide our ?
You sound very Priveldged , trying to impose your ignorance on others , whos your Dad ?
dO yOur OwN rEseArcH
You sound just like every other idiot that says that. Trumpers, anti-vaxxers and the like. If you have to look around for yOur Own rEsEaRcH that lines up with what you want it to say, it’s because it’s not based in facts. You guys seem to honestly think you sound smart…smh
also like every other Iraq war Opponents , Vietnam war opponents, Imperialism Opponents ,Julian Assage loyalist etc… dont forget them !
Do you accept “Dissent” at all ? and are you Capable of Processing new information ?
this is REALLY Taiwans Air identification Zone . it is NOT the Taiwanese Airspace , this is a Factuall basis. Please Just Process this new Information , the Article is really missleading , the babycrying will stop after a while , trust me . You are really wrong and most people can comprehend that after a while.
lol
Hexbear is a large, leftist instance, that just recently federated, and most of us are pro-China. We’re not bots and we’re not getting paid, but we’re not shy about our political views. That’s the reason you’re suddenly seeing a bunch more comments defending China.
Dude what are you talking about I’m paying down my mortgage with the xibux I’m getting from dunking on libs here.
You guys have been getting paid!? The whole time??
I am literally swimming in oceans of renmibi right now scrooge mcduck style thanks to all the libs I have crushed at zaddie xi’s behest.
Plz tell Xi I have not received my payments this month I need it for buying Estrogen please Xi
What the fuck did you expect? Lemmy has a Marxist Leninist developer named Dessalines. If you want, critique his ass for letting this happen…
I made an account with lemmy.world and I don’t see them anymore.
Bout to do the same
You won’t be missed
Lots of these people were on lemmy long before you showed up. Maybe you’ve just been sheltered from the real posters of Lemmy.
I know right! How come there are so, so many people defending China here? I thought they were the minority. Ugh. When I was back on Reddit comments like those would always be downvoted to hell.
Unfortunately they’re probably real people. Most of Lemmy was full of tankies before the reddit migration so any post involving China or Russia brings them out in force.
Why would anybody astroturf this shitty fucking website lmfao
The irony of someone whose baseline for opinion making was
leaving that place and feeling all of a sudden as if the discussion is being manipulated 
I was curious what you were talking about as there are only 10 comments through Beehaw so I checked out the original. It’s overwhelmingly coming from hexbear.net which we’ve defederated from.
Unlike Reddit, where the news pieces and opinions that are the most prominently featured are not influenced in any way, shape, or form by powerful institutions who want to push an agenda
(when there are political views i disagree with) hmm, seems like theres some astroturfing going on
A specter haunts the Lemmyverse. The specter of differing opinions 😱😱😱
China is the high-water mark of human governance!!
joined 2 months ago
Yea, it feels like 4chan suddenly saw the light and then turned far-left all at once. They act like what the far right imagines the left to be like, but just looks like really bad anti-leftist propaganda, or they’re just tankies :/ some hexbears are ok, though, but most here are just discrediting themselves by throwing the propaganda handbook at the passersby.
Fuck the CCP
They are just showing us what non-imperialism looks like
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Flying in the southwest zone isn’t aggressive
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Both countries agree that the territories they occupy are both China
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Taiwan is literally a settler colonial state that massacred the indigenous inhabitants when the KMT retreated there
The indigenous inhabitants and the 10,000 or so dissidents that they put in camps at the beginning of their incredibly democratic four decades of martial law.
Right, my bad.
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Goddammit, I do NOT want us to be propping up a war in Ukraine and fighting an actual war with China.
