Lazz45

That is the second. The “first” was linus going on an unhinged rant and shirking blame on the LTT forums

Yeah, very sadly the chemical industry (and then by extension, manufacturing/maintenance as a whole) is rife with this shit. I hope and pray that young and aspiring chemists/chemical engineers/regulators/safety engineers/etc. will make changes in time that we take harder approaches to shit like this. We put the environment and people first, the “progress” of industry in a close second.

Regarding what you said about the old guys doing it how they used to. I see that all the time in my steel mill. Lots of older guys (and some younger ones who put off the too cool for school vibe) dont wear earplugs all the time. They havent for the last 20 years, so what is me telling them they will lose their hearing gonna do? They have done it this way, and will continue to do it this way. Luckily, we have had success in general improving our safety culture, but getting people to care about the unseen threats (particulate matter, hearing loss, exposure, etc.) can be very hard

To be exact, it is a wt% of the feedstock they are changing. Not the fuel itself. (I am not commenting on the fact that they likely would be exposed to combustion products/uncombusted products).

From a chemical perspective, it also chemically needs to be similiar to the original feedstock, or else you would not be producing the fuel you want in the correct ratios. These systems are a very complex system of multiple primary reactions + side chain reactions. They are not trying to reinvent the wheel here, they would want the system to behave as close to the same as possible so that they can just apply this in their existing plants.

IF (BIG IF) they can prove that the waste plastic feedstock does not change the output products of the combusted fuel (included non combusted products, or products of incomplete combustion), this could be a big win for making use of waste plastics, otherwise I have a very sick feeling that this is trending towards the next tetra-ethyl lead event

So I wanted to provide a bit of unique perspective here on the topic. I now work as a process engineer in a steel mill, but 2 of my previous positions were in product safety and regulatory compliance. I worked in US, CA, & MX regulatory law, as well as global compliance with countries outside of the Americas. In my position I had to deal with regulatory compliance with chemical lists (TSCA, ECHA, DSL/NDSL, ISHL, etc.) and I was responsible for creating and verifying the information we use to create our SDS sheets.

So a large part of people are stuck on the fact that there is a lot of redacted information in the paper, this could be for multiple reasons outside of protecting trade secrets. As I stated above, there are regulatory chemical lists. In many countries, it is entirely ILLEGAL to sell or use in manufacturing, any chemicals which do not appear on the list for the country in question. When a company wants to create a new chemical (which is happening all the time, this also can be a “mix” and not a defined exact molecule, ill speak more on this later) its is a very slow and long process of classifying the chemical, getting a CAS number assigned, and then getting this chemical listed on the regulatory lists of the locations you intend to use it/sell it. To get listed on these lists is a process in itself that includes providing absolutely as much information on the chemical as reasonably achievable. From my experience, ECHA (EU) has stricter rules than TSCA (U.S) for example, and not all lists are made equal, governed equally, or even list the same chemicals. So circling back, the feedstock listed in the paper is likely very early in this process or is in the middle of the process, meaning there is not an “official” name or means of identifying what is being spoken about, anything referred to in the paper would just be internal monikers/code names or possibly a nickname to describe it.

On the topic I said I would speak more about, “mixes” or “chemicals” without a defined chemistry. So there are feedstocks/chemicals/mixes of oils/paraffin materials/alkanes/etc. that are very hard to control the creation of, so they are created as an inseparable bulk mixture. Some Examples:

-Cas #: 85535-86-0 [C18-28 Chloroalkanes (20-50 %Cl)]

-Cas #: 97553-43-0 [Paraffins (petroleum), normal C > 10, chloro]

The “mixtures” are classified based on their properties and what is actually making up that mix defined within the certain Cas #. This is likely how all of the feedstocks in the paper would be classified. Based on certain plastics that are recycled you could expect X, Y, Z, defined blends.

Finally, regarding the safety aspect. Having been thrown into the world of chemical regulation (I am a chemical engineer by education, we covered the existence of TSCA in like one section of our safety course), I got to see first hand how almost “fly by the seat of your pants” it is. I cannot suggest a “better” way to more safely regulate these chemicals, other than to take an outright strict approach (which I am in favor of btw). Eu for example is much stricter (both health and environmental hazard wise) compared to the U.S. They have a higher burden of proof that the chemical is not harmful and an approach of “okay if it shows signs it could be a problem, classify it as such”, while it sure feels like the EPA takes the approach of “okay, lets see if you guys can keep this from becoming a problem.” Which companies have proved repeatedly, they cannot.

Do you mean read posts or read mail? If you mean posts, I actually wouldn’t like that feature (for me). I like being able to find a post I found funny or pull up info for someone else, and seeing that it WAS read is helpful there

Here I am on jerboa wondering why it barely gets mentioned lol. It was all that was available in the first wave of migration and im used to it now. Sorta how I ended up on baconreader. Someone told me to try it, I had not used a 3rd party app before then (reddit didnt even have one at the time, the one they have now is steaming trash) and I got used to it and never looked for another. Until Jerboa isn’t doing what I need/want or begins to have functionality problems, I dont feel a need to change