• Spaceinv8er@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    21
    ·
    6 months ago

    I’m 38 and I just achieved that goal.

    Don’t stress about this shit (too much).

    Go to concerts, take trips, eat your avocado toast. Indulge.

    You’re only young once, and everyone is poor in their 20’s. Unless you’re lucky or it’s given to you.

    It sounds trite, but success will come. However you measure it.

  • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    6 months ago

    Didn’t anyone notice during covid these “highly responsible business people” couldn’t make it a couple months without the “to big to fail” bailouts or free covid money?

    • Avg@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      6 months ago

      When you are living paycheck to paycheck, that number is probably the same.

      • PatMustard@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        If your expenses are more than your pay then you can either get a better paying job, cut your expenses by moving, or die

        • fadedmaster@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          6 months ago

          There are other ways to cut expenses too. I’ll bet a lot of people (not all, but a lot of them, maybe even a majority) are paying for things they don’t need when they’re living paycheck to paycheck. Things like Spotify, Netflix, fast food, car washes, probably even car payments on a car that is beyond their means or at the least way more car than they need.

          Every friend of mine I’ve helped get to a financially stable and responsible point in their life could do it without having to increase their income. Obviously an increase in income makes it a lot easier to do this, but if you don’t have the behaviors down, then you’re just going to creep your lifestyle when you make more money.

          • PatMustard@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            6 months ago

            You are correct, of course; I’m being facetious because half the comments here seem to be from people who are renting somewhere that costs their entire salary

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            6 months ago

            paying for things they don’t need

            What you mean by ‘don’t need’ is ‘don’t need as long as they don’t want to have a slightly better level of life quality than if they were dirt poor.’

            You don’t literally need things like Netflix or fast food, but they make your life more tolerable right now so that you don’t die of the endless stress and misery.

            Sure, there are ways some people can cut expenses. There are also ways people could cut expenses, but at the expense of their own basic mental health.

            • fadedmaster@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              6 months ago

              Not having Netflix and the like does not make one dirt poor. That is such an entitled view to have. Literally first world problems if your mental health can’t handle not having the latest entertainment. Go to a library for goodness sakes.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                6 months ago

                I didn’t say they were. Please re-read what I wrote:

                What you mean by ‘don’t need’ is ‘don’t need as long as they don’t want to have a slightly better level of life quality than if they were dirt poor.

                Yes, you can go to a library. I love libraries. My wife is a librarian. That doesn’t mean I don’t think people shouldn’t spend $7 a month for a lowest tier Netflix account just to make their lives a little better. Maybe Netflix wouldn’t make your life better. Someone with kids who wants them to be able to watch Teletubbies or Peppa Pig whenever they want, that makes both the parents’ lives and the kids’ lives better.

                You are doing something no different from the “stop eating so much avocado toast” guy. Maybe not having avocado toast is a first world problem, but those people don’t live in a third world country. So why should they live like they do?

                I was super poor in the 1990s. I still bought CDs and DVDs because they made my life better so I wasn’t unhappy all the time. Sure, I could have gotten all of my music and movies from the library. On the other hand, I couldn’t have listened to the music I liked any time I wanted. Could I have instead saved that money for an emergency or for retirement? Sure I could have. It would have made my life worse and, yes, been damaging to my mental health. I’m not sure why you think libraries existing cure any mental health issues brought upon by not being able to afford to have a better quality of life in a first world country.

                • fadedmaster@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  6 months ago

                  I’m not saying Netflix and fast food are keeping people poor like that guy about avocado toast.

                  I’m saying that if you can’t afford an emergency, that’s an emergency itself.

                  Buying fast food and Netflix (and all the other things that go with that) instead of saving up so you can afford an emergency is irresponsible.

                  Not being able to afford Netflix and/or fast food isn’t being “slightly better quality of life than if they were dirt poor.” I may not have been dirt poor. But I was buy expired milk and bread to freeze, can’t afford minutes for my flip phone while my friends have smart phones, poor. And my quality of life wasn’t “slightly better” than “dirt poor.” I had a furnished apartment, a color TV, and was able to borrow videos from the library for entertainment.

    • Conyak@lemmy.tf
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      Also, 6 months may be more than needed depending on your field. If you lost your job today how long would it take you to find a new one? It could be six month but maybe less. I keep 3 months of expenses on hand because it has never taken me more than a month to find a different job.

    • Empricorn@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      6 months ago

      Do- do you think I don’t have to spend most of my pay every month just to survive…?

    • fidodo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      Recent surveys find that 3/4ths of Americans live paycheck to paycheck so no.

      • hydrospanner@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        6 months ago

        Yeah, “advice” like this always just comes across as “well have you tried not being poor?

    • ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      If they’re able to and understand that it’s important, yeah. If you can’t afford to save (ie can’t pay basic expenses with money left over for savings), then no.

      If you’re spending everything you earn, then if you miss a paycheck/get fired you’re screwed. If there’s nothing you can cut back on to start to save money and there’s not a sufficient government safety net - then that’s a really dangerous spot to be in.

      The first priority when it comes to financial planning is having enough saved so that if you have an unexpected expense or get fired you won’t be out on the streets.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          8
          ·
          6 months ago

          You would think that and then there’s industry wide layoffs and you need to get new job training at the local community college.

        • BlackLodgeCooper@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          6 months ago

          There is not a hard and fast rule for how big your emergency fund should be but there are definitely a lot of folks in the personal finance community who have at least 6 months in some type of readily available account that’s not tied up in 401k or other investment funds which have early withdrawal penalties.

          How much you save comes down to the individuals ability to do so and how much risk they are at if they were to suddenly lose a source of steady income and how much debt they currently have. For people with a lot of ongoing expenses, it’d be smart to try and pad up some safety net so they don’t have their life completely fall apart if they somehow lost their job. This also might vary if you are single income or multiple streams for the household.

          6 months is probably on the higher side since there’s the opportunity cost of not investing surplus money somewhere that could have a higher rate of returns. Usually money that is in emergency funds have lower interest rates as a tradeoff. And if you have upwards of 4 months or more, you can use that time to draw from other accounts for more money if you see that the emergency fund isn’t enough.

          • ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            6 months ago

            Good point about opportunity cost of cash savings vs investing - could always put it in a high yield savings account and/or some of it in short term bonds to mitigate that effect. I have about 3/6 mos of my emergency fund in HYS and maybe like 2 more in matured I Bonds (would just be giving up last 3mos interest if I withdrew it and could have the money in less than a week)

  • UnfortunateDoorHinge@aussie.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    6 months ago

    If you’re under 30, full-time job, no looming debts, no kids, then the 6 months can really be 3 months or around $10,000. If you have a partner, you are even more secure. Remember this is a figure derived from very conservative financial commentators who assume you have a linear college and job progression (which is rarely the case). Even a 1 month savings buffer will save you for 90% of the unexpected expenses.

    If you’re in your late 50s, finding a new job will be tough, especially if you are laid off during a recession. In that case a generous buffer beyond 6 months would be good.

    Either way, having savings is a good thing. Yes you will miss out on those “epic Bitcoin gains”, but once you have made an emergency savings buffer, then you can really knuckle down on contributions to retirement.

  • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    6 months ago

    Consider the value of your purchases, that doesn’t mean buying the cheapest thing. It means buy the things that give you the most benefit. Price compare, don’t just blindly go to the store and buy something.

    Don’t drive to the store to buy one thing. Go to the store if you’re already going past it or need to do a full run.

    If you think you want to buy something you don’t necessarily need, don’t buy it immediately, put it in your online shopping cart and leave it there for a few days, then decide if you still want it.

    Sell stuff that you don’t want or use anymore.

    Never go out to eat/ order food if you can help it.

    Stop drinking soda/energy drinks.

    Stop smoking, doing drugs, and drinking alcohol.

    Never go inside the gas station to pay, always pay at the pump. You’ll avoid impulse purchases and don’t buy lottery tickets.

    Stop caring what other people think, you don’t need to buy a bunch of fancy clothes, shoes, the latest iPhone, etc. The only time you need to dress nice is a job interview and special occasions.

    Show up to work on time, don’t complain out loud, and have a willingness to learn something new. You don’t have to be the best to get more money. Don’t stay at the same job if you’re not getting promoted or regular pay raises.

    Buy a bicycle.

    Floss your teeth, dental work is expensive.

    Move to a higher cost of living area to get jobs that pay more. Rent is higher, but everything else costs pretty much the same so you’re better off and have more job opportunities.

    Put as much money into your retirement account while you’re young, time in the market is better than timing the market.

    Take care of your things, especially if you have a car. Maintenance costs less than a new engine.

    Learn to fix things yourself

    Go to thrift stores

    Take advantage of free services, go to the library, they have access to a lot of online subscriptions.

    Stay away from predatory loans from places like rentacenter, buy here pay here car lots and payday loans. Just don’t.

    Don’t take out a car loan if you can’t afford it.

    Get a savings/checking account with the highest interest you can find. It doesn’t have to be a local credit union/bank.

    Do your own taxes for free, don’t pay someone to do them if you only have a regular job.

    Get a roommate and split rent.

    Take the bus/train.

    Coupons/ deals/ rewards points.

    Never talk to the cops.

  • Etterra@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    6 months ago

    In what universe is this even possible for most people? Because it’s not this one.

    • Zink@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      6 months ago

      I was that person until mid 2019.

      Then some unexpected huge home expenses vaporized the emergency savings.

      Then COVID happened and I lost my job! TWICE! This was after being an engineer at the same company for 16 years. My shit was stable AF before it all started.

      Now I’m a much happier person with a much better job, but my finances are LOLfukt. Fortunately due to me trying to be careful in the past, I already owned a small cheap home in a reasonable COL area, so I can’t complain.

      • droans@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        6 months ago

        Now I’m a much happier person with a much better job, but my finances are LOLfukt.

        Not really; you just found out why an emergency fund is important.

        • Zink@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          6 months ago

          Oh I extracted the full potential of my rainy day preparedness, no doubt.

          But the three things in that sentence still hold true. My finances are not fucked because of the better mental state and job, they’re just fucked all on their own due to recent history. But at least I can work on it now.

    • scoobford@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      6 months ago

      Its possible in this one, it just isn’t easy, takes a while, and generally isnt super pleasant.

      When people say to “live within your means”, they don’t mean “don’t spend more than you make”, they mean “save enough to maintain your financial security”.

    • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      I have about $10k socked away into an HSA account from when I had a high deductible insurance plan. With an HSA you can leave the money in an investment account, you don’t have to withdraw it when the cost occurs. You just need to have receipts for the amounts you withdraw so you can show them to the IRS is bed be. So I save all my receipts for doctors visits, prescriptions, OTC medicine, glasses, dental, and anything else allowed. Then I have tax free money sitting in an investment account that I can withdraw tax free if I have a real emergency.

      You can also put money into a Roth IRA and you can withdraw your contributions tax free.

      There’s a bunch of ways to make your money work for you and still have access to it in a true emergency.

    • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      If you stay home with your parents for a year or two, you’d get plenty of savings if you’re careful. I know I did.

      I know in more individualistic countries not moving out by 18 or 20s has traditionally been seen as taboo, but the current housing situation makes that traditional social rule very impractical for many. Besides, from what I heard in the USA, still living at home with parents is less stigmatised than before.

      • kiljoy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        My savings where wiped out buying a house. Now it’s fucking impossible between maintenance and god knows whatever else is flung at me.

      • Botree@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        Moving out at a young age is only a norm in just a handful of countries, mainly the English speaking ones. Reason being that they were more developed than the rest of the world, making it possible for them to move out when they turn 18. Poverty is a big reason why families are closer and live together for a much longer period. But many of these developed nations seem to be regressing these days, with more money flowing upwards than downwards.

        I agree though. The best time to move out is after you’ve worked and saved up enough for a down payment for your own place. Those few years are perhaps the best opportunity to save up that most of us may never get again.

      • Anamnesis@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        6 months ago

        Lots of good reasons why someone might end up in debt. I got divorced and laid off. Dog needed $2k surgery to not have a terrible quality of life. Got a terrible staph infection on my chest after losing health insurance. This all happened in a four month period. I moved to a cheaper apartment, cut off any subscription aside from internet, which I need for two of my four jobs, got a cheaper phone plan, and mostly ate rice and beans every day. Still, it’s taken a year just to get back to zero.

  • doingthestuff@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    6 months ago

    I had 9 months saved in 2020. I’m taking out loans this month because it’s at zero. It’s been a hell of a ride. This economy is fucked though.

    • Crikeste@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      6 months ago

      Hey man, you live in a democracy. Go vote to change it. Oh wait. You can’t because you don’t live in a democracy.

      • BleatingZombie@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        6 months ago

        Yeah! Take THAT person in an unfortunate situation. I bet you feel stupid for not having enough money to move, poor-y

      • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        6 months ago

        You are so smart. Why don’t poor people just move to a democracy? Its only requires a bunch of money and sacrifice. Poor people should just abandon all of their friends, families, and connections by spending all of that money that poor people are known to have. That way they can live in a democracy and vote not to be poor, or whatever.

  • Entropy@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    6 months ago

    So if I want to accomplish this in a year I should be putting away half of every paycheck? Between rent, bills and groceries, who the fuck can afford that?

    • PatMustard@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      6 months ago

      People with less expenses, people with a higher salary, people who live in a less expensive area, etc, etc.

      • snooggums@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        6 months ago

        Most people can’t afford it in a year.

        People who inherited a sizeable amount of money or are in the top 10% of earners are able to do so.

        • RagnarokOnline@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          6 months ago

          I world say it’s getting to 3-months first, then paying down debt with high-interest rates, then trying for 6-months of expenses. Could easily take a decade, but the idea is that once you have that 6-months saved, it’s less likely that you’ll re-enter into high-interest debt in the first place.

        • scoobford@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          6 months ago

          It’s a however long it takes goal. I’m hoping to have it done in 2, although 3 and change is more realistic.

          Unfortunately, if you can’t afford to live with financial security, you can’t afford to live. I haven’t had an entertainment budget in over a year, and food has basically been what’s on sale at the grocery store and maybe a gyro every month.

          • fadedmaster@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            6 months ago

            I wish you the best of luck. It isn’t easy. Getting out of debt and having a fully funded emergency fund is a great feeling.

        • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          6 months ago

          How long is a piece of string?

          Depends on how much you earn, what are your expenses, and how much you have saved already.

      • scoobford@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        6 months ago

        You don’t have to. Start early, save aggressively, get it done before you worry about upgrading your lifestyle.

    • Lowpast@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      6 months ago

      Most people don’t accomplish 6 months emergency fund in 1 year, no. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

    • scoobford@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      6 months of expenses, not income.

      Most people can. I make $40k per year in a major city, and I’m getting there.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        6 months ago

        Considering rent or mortgages alone takes a vast percentage of many people’s paychecks before you factor in things like student loan and medical debts, most people cannot.

        And I have no idea how you can even live on $40k a year in a major city unless you’re eating beans and rice with every meal and living in a studio apartment with 4 other people.

        • scoobford@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          6 months ago

          Median income here is in the mid $60’s. I’m definitely poor, but I do save some money.

          I live alone, and cook basically all my meals. Eating out and processed foods from a grocery store are both too pricey for more than once or twice a month. Mostly buy meat and fresh produce because carbs tend to give me stomach issues in large amounts.

          Unfortunately, I am disabled. So while I have insurance, I cannot afford to see a specialist as regularly as I should. To be fair, this is out of network and like $700/month on top of my existing premiums and HSA contributions.

          If nothing too crazy happens in the next year, I’ll be able to change jobs and get my medical care back in network, meaning I don’t need to ration doctor’s visits for my disability. If nothing happens in 2 or 3, I’ll have my emergency savings in a very good place. If nothing happens in 5, I might pay cash for my next car.

          After that, fuck it. I’ll be financially stable, I’ll have another decade before I have a planned major expense like a car, and home ownership is a pipe dream here anyways. Last I looked, they start around $400k, which would mean coming up with about $180,000 for my down payment lol

          Edit: Since you brought it up specifically, my rent and utilities is about $1200. I live in a very old building in a shitty neighborhood. The jail is right across the street, so there’s enough of a police presence to keep it safe. It is clean, but my landlord is fucking terrible and I have to sue or threaten to sue to get anything fixed.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            6 months ago

            Sorry that you have to go through all of that. I’m dealing with a mystery illness right now which involves food, so I understand.

    • dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      I make plenty of money and it took 15 years for me to get my emergency fund up to scratch.

      Edit: of course, you can probably do it faster if you don’t have any emergencies while funding the account lol.

      • Asafum@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        6 months ago

        Psh look at this sun breather. I just de-evolved myself by my bootstraps and float near a hydrothermal vent like a real adult

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        “Just start a small business.”

        That’s what I keep hearing from Republicans.

        I actually owned a small business, which is why I understand what bullshit advice that is.

  • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    6 months ago

    I don’t have anything remotely close to 6 months savings in the bank. It doesn’t make economic sense for me to do so. I’m far better off talking any would-be savings and put it towards all this debt I’m still carrying from my college days.

    You will never make more interest on an investment than you will get charged interest for the same amount as a loan. Ever. It does not happen. So for me to sit on money that could go towards paying down debts, I’m just needlessly paying more in interest than I would be otherwise.

    My current plan is to pay down or pay off all by debts (ultimately paying them off but if they’re close then ok); then consolidate all of my remaining debt into a line of credit, and close out all of my other debt accounts. When that’s paid, it will hopefully be enough that I can put that available credit towards any spontaneous costs, and if no such costs occur, save as much as I can so I won’t need the line of credit if I have incidentals. Hopefully saving up to 6 months or more, plus investing into a retirement fund.

    The retirement fund is an afterthought because at this point in my life I expect that I will be financially incapable of retiring. I’ll just work until either I go crazy (dementia or similar), or I simply die at my job. I’ll just work until I’m dead.

    I’ve been so financially fucked by all the once-in-a-(insert large amount of time here) events that just coincidentally all happened during my life so far that this is what I’m expecting going forward. Record inflation, stagnant wages, everything as-a-service basically robbing you monthly for something you should have bought and long since paid off, but instead you’re paying for in perpetuity for no good reason…

    Everything has turned into a monthly charge. It’s terrible, and you think “oh, it’s only $20 a month”. Yeah, that’s $240/yr. For something that probably doesn’t make you any money and probably doesn’t help you with your employment or any earnings you may bring in… It’s just a stupid tax. We’re stupid.

    • droans@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      You will never make more interest on an investment than you will get charged interest for the same amount as a loan. Ever. It does not happen.

      This is barely more accurate than a coin flip. Until 2021, it wasn’t that difficult to find loans with rates under 5%. Anything under 4% is basically free money and you’re normally better off investing in something low risk than to pay extra.

      So for me to sit on money that could go towards paying down debts, I’m just needlessly paying more in interest than I would be otherwise.

      If you don’t have any emergency funds, or not enough to cover a single large emergency, this is dumb. Cars break, roofs leak, etc. Even if you have an emergency where you can pay on credit, you’ll likely be looking at credit card interest rates. Or, you lose your job. Fun fact, most job loses occur when the economy is struggling. Another fun fact, most investments are doing really fucking poorly when the economy is struggling.

      Keep some money on hand in case something happens.

    • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      6 months ago

      It’s not always true that you can’t get a better interest rate for savings than a cost in interest. It is true that the money you could make in those scenarios is extremely small or at absurd levels of risk.

      • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        6 months ago

        Well, you could invest in a stock that goes “to the moon” as they say… But that’s capital gains gambling, as far as I’m concerned.

        Most interest/dividend payments will be far below what you’ll pay in interest on a loan, with few exceptions.

        • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          6 months ago

          Investing in the stock market instead of paying a loan is stupidly risky. There’s a few loans that are possible where you could get a rate lower than some savings accounts, but you will only net 1-2% on your money in that scenario.

    • MrMcGasion@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      6 months ago

      I have a bit of savings, but nowhere near 6 months worth. Just have had enough freak accidents and those “once-in-a-(insert large amount of time here)” events that having at least a month’s worth of savings has saved me from taking out more debt enough times that I try to keep something saved.

      That said, while I’m sure the interest I’ve spent on my debt over the years has been enormous, the one silver lining to it all is that with inflation, my debt feels more manageable than it did 10 years ago. Not that I can really afford pay it off that much faster since every other part of life is more expensive, but in comparison to everything else, it feels much less overwhelming than it used to.

    • JasSmith@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      You will never make more interest on an investment than you will get charged interest for the same amount as a loan.

      The historical S&P500 average is 11.88% annualised. Unless your interest rate is above this, you’re better off investing. In reality it’s more complex as there are tax considerations, liquidity, risk, opportunity cost etc to calculate. If your interest rate approaches this, paying down debt is indeed the best course of action.

  • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    6 months ago

    I honestly think the “6 months of salary in an emergency fund”-advice is a bit overblown and certainly not universally applicable.

    An emergency fund must per definition be very liquid in order to fulfill its purpose, hence you can only really place the money in a simple savings account with a not-so-spectacular interest rate. This means that the opportunity cost of having 6 months of salary in an emergency fund is the delta of expected return on investment in a higher-yield method of savings, such as placing the money in index funds. This can be quite significant, in particular since saving up 6 months of salary is not an easy task for the average person.

    If you had the money placed in investments, the money would be less liquid, and there’s the chance that you may have to liquidate it during a downturn, which would of course suck a little. Consider carefully under which scenarios you would have to liquidate, though:

    • Lost your job? I have unemployment insurance to cover this scenario for me, meaning that I will get 80% of my current salary for close to a year, a period during which I would have to liquidate nothing.
    • Disaster strikes my home? My home insurance policy covers this more than enough for me.
    • Medical emergency? I’m lucky enough to live in a country where health care is free, but I have additional health insurance on top of that as well.
    • Emergency while traveling? I have great travel insurance. They cover all medical expenses and would even fly me back home post-haste in disaster scenarios.
    • Other accidents where I hurt myself? You guessed it, I have insurance for that too.

    Now, there’s an argument to be made that these insurance policies might be a bit slow to pay out, and that I might need to be a bit more liquid to cover the expenses temporarily. I have a solution for that too - credit cards. With credit cards I can make a short-term loan that should bridge over most issues until I can either get money from any of my insurance policies, or worst case have time to liquidate some of my higher-yield investments.

    So yeah, that’s my plan. It does not involve 6 months of salary being invested in a low-yield savings account, because that’d lose me a lot of money. I dislike the fact that the 6 months emergency fund is basically parroted as religious gospel, and it feels like people who repeat it have not thought about the issue thoroughly.

    • timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      6 months ago

      It’s a generalized thing that is healthy advice for most people, especially Americans who have very little of a social safety net.

    • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      Some say a good rule of thumb is 3–6 months of mandatory expenses depending on personal situations and it looks like you’re safe with the lesser amount.

      I usually hover around 3–4,5 months but have decided to increase a bit because of the current instability of everything

    • Anamnesis@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      Man, where do you live where unemployment is nearly a year at 80% of your salary? When I was unemployed here in Washington, it was six months and more like 50% of my salary. And from what I understand, Washington is a lot more generous than most states.

      • GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        Sweden. You pay around $12 for the basic coverage which covers 80% of your salary up to a cap of around $2500 a month, for 250 working days. My union membership, which costs approximately $25 per month, then includes an additional coverage for if you go over the cap of $2500 a month for the basic coverage. These combined then cover you for income up to around $4500 a month. It’s also possible to get additional coverage on top of that to cover incomes above this amount through the union, again for around $12 a month.

        I’ve simplified the terms greatly, so in practice they are a bit worse - in particular, the compensation amounts get lower after a certain amount of days spent unemployed - but the general idea holds. To qualify, you need to have been employed already for a year, and you are required to look for work as a condition to get payouts on the insurance. You lose the right to payouts if you decline an appropriate job offer.

    • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      Stocks and mutual funds are liquid enough to act as an emergency fund; you don’t need to rely on a savings account only to hold your emergency fund.

      • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        6 months ago

        Would certainly suck if those six months worth of emergency fund had temporarily gone down to four months because of a downturn in the stock market though.

        Accidentally there might also be some correlation with stock markets going down, and an emergency happening. Eg large company laying staff off.

        That said you can do the math and see how much that money would return on average on etfs compared to a bank account, and decide if that’s worth the risk to you.

        Experts say no, I agree with them but I see your point, and it’s definitely worth to challenge these suggestions.

        • Aux@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          6 months ago

          The only way you can have your emergency fund invested is if you have a very good credit card which can cover all your expenses for a month or two. You can then reduce your emergency fund to one month’s worth so you can have cash if needed.

          • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            6 months ago

            I had an 18 month 0% card last year. I floated a bunch of expenses on it and paid it off a few days before interest kicked in. I also earned rewards points from the card, so double win I guess.

    • dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      You could also consider a ladder of cds as an example, but then you either have to continually re-up 6 month cds or go for a year of them, each for about your monthly expenses.

      I just take the 4% interest (or whatever rapidly changing amount ally bank offers me on savings since they update a lot) and roll with it. For now it’s a similar ROI to renting a property without all the fuss of… Buying a property and doing the work lol.

    • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      6 months ago

      You seem to be in a very unique situation. And to have a pretty good understanding of personal finance and of your risk appetite. What you say works for you and a few people that happen to have access to universal healthcare, what looks like four separate insurance policies, and that can manage not to fuck it up with credit cards.

      6 months liquid emergency fund remains the best strategy for most people out there.

      • XTL@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        Not a unique situation. It’s pretty much the average for millions of adult to middle aged people in several countries.

        Not nearly the norm globally but calling it unique is pretty ridiculous.